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  • #16
    Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

    I don't doubt it produces down force. It is a wing after all. Just a whole lot of overkill

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    • #17
      Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

      Originally posted by OneBadAzzG6 View Post
      You obviously don't know anything about spoilers, probably because you have never had one. I can tell there is a big difference in grip at the rear, but there is no loss in grip at the front, because when you corner most of a car's weight is on the front wheels. Also at speeds where the spoiler is really pushing down, I don't think I will be spinning my wheels or loosing any traction. A spoiler adds stability when you corner keeping you planted so you can corner at higher speeds. Granted you will have a little more under-steer from a rear spoiler, but you most certainly will not loose traction. Otherwise they wouldn't put such huge spoilers on the back of cars in the ind 500. If you think you really have to be speeding to get down force, then maybe you should look at the formula for down force and learn something. Down force=1/2the wingspan*Height*Angle of attack*lift coefficient*air density*Velocity^2. Please actually know something about what you say before you actually say it. : )

      I have a spoiler. Just not a huge one that is pointless. They put wings on race cars because they are rear wheel drive. So puts more force on rear wheels for traction. Your car is FWD. That spoiler isnt going to make a huge difference. Srt4 neons come with a decent size spoiler. Yes fwd car. But they do 150mph... thats why the spoiler is there. Yes a spoiler on a fwd is helpful. But only at very high speeds.

      Im pretty sure your car is all stock other then maybe an intake. You will have a huge handleing increase if you actually do major suspension work. Like bigger stiffer sway bars. All poly bushings or stronger like delrin. Lowering springs etc. And an even bigger improvement for handleing.... coilovers.

      No offense but people are not "scared" of gettinf a wing like that. No one does it because its considered rice. Others call it "park benches"

      And honestly. In some cases, to much drag can be a bad thing.
      Last edited by sleepyalero; 04-20-2014, 04:45 PM.
      2001 Oldsmobile Alero GLS 3400, F40 sedan.
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      • #18
        Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

        So this is where all the fun is...
        Mods: BMD Adjustable Front End Links, BMD Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Koni Yellow Sport Dampers, Pedders Lowering Springs, Brembo Upgrade, Racingline STB, Custom Intake, 8000k Lowbeam HIDs, 10000k Foglight HIDs, Badge & Doorsill Overlays, GM G6 Logo Mats, Blacked Out Window Trim, Blacked Out Grills, Pioneer Headunit, 2 10" Kenwood Subs

        My Progression

        BMD Performance products

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        • #19
          Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

          Originally posted by theshibbykumquat View Post
          So this is where all the fun is...
          Welcome to the party lol
          GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
          2006 G6 GT Coupe | Emerald Green | Plasti-dipped Emblems | Silverstar ZXE's | CRABs Opt. 3 + FPU | OBX Exhaust | Eibach Springs |

          Current Ride: 2004 BMW 330i ZHP | IMOLA RED | 6MT

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          • #20
            Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

            Originally posted by OneBadAzzG6 View Post
            You obviously don't know anything about spoilers, probably because you have never had one. I can tell there is a big difference in grip at the rear, but there is no loss in grip at the front, because when you corner most of a car's weight is on the front wheels. Also at speeds where the spoiler is really pushing down, I don't think I will be spinning my wheels or loosing any traction. A spoiler adds stability when you corner keeping you planted so you can corner at higher speeds. Granted you will have a little more under-steer from a rear spoiler, but you most certainly will not loose traction. Otherwise they wouldn't put such huge spoilers on the back of cars in the ind 500. If you think you really have to be speeding to get down force, then maybe you should look at the formula for down force and learn something.
            I'm not sure that just b/c you have a spoiler, makes you knowledgeable on them. F1 and Indy (even NASCAR) spend A LOT of time in wind tunnels with a large amount of test equipment to finely tune their 1/2 million dollar machines. They routinely talk about about supercars producing an amount of downforce at 150mph, while only incurring a certain amount of drag. Unless you spent REAL money on that fancy clothes line, all you have is a replica and something that looks "pretty" and is no more functional than the lip spoiler that adorned my car from the factory OR the hammerhead that graces it now. I can without a doubt say that you will see more drag, less fuel economy, and more laughs and stares than that thing will actually legit help.




            Originally posted by OneBadAzzG6 View Post
            Down force=1/2the wingspan*Height*Angle of attack*lift coefficient*air density*Velocity^2. Please actually know something about what you say before you actually say it. : )
            I'm not the first person to think it.. but unless you pulled this outta your butt and can tell us the individual values of the large string of variables, I will doubt you know anything of magnitude on the matter. I can google downforce equations too, but if I don't know the values to ACTUALLY calculate it, I'm about as ignorant as the rest. What I can tell you from just a simple evaluation of the equation given, velocity seems to be the single largest variable here. Seeing that it is squared means that downforce is not a linear calculation, but actually exponential. meaning the downforce created at 120mph is 9 TIMES the force at 40 (and not the 3x you would assume). Meaning if you are on par with the rest of the supercar world (in a G6) you will only be creating around 30lbs of force at 40mph. (roughly a small tire and wheel together). I'm sorry, but if I put 30lbs in the trunk, i will see no measurable difference in my cornering abilities. All this is based on the fact that you can produce supercar downforce. (which just isn't gonna happen with a $125 wing from rice.com)

            Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt. Please don't get on here and run members down with less than factual knowledge. I am by no means an expert, but I'm not about to say G6 is a "fast" car, let alone compare it to an Indy car....


            Current Modifications: 18' Sky Wheels w/ 245/40-18 Tires, 25mm Spacers, Megan Racing Coilovers, Racingline STB, JPE Rear Camber Kit, Energy Suspension Poly Bushings, Painted Calipers, Double Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Ceramic Brake Pads, Street Series MMI, CRABS with FPU, NGK Iridium Plugs, Kingsborne 8mm Wires, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Custom 2ga Grounding Kit, DDM 6k HIDs High/Low/Fog, Halos, High/Fog Mod, Chrome Recessed Upper and Lower Grills, GM Ground Effects Kit, GXP Rear Bumper, GXP Sedan Hammerhead, 15% Tint, Custom Painted Engine Cover, Painted Mirror Caps, Tinted Tails, QuickLifts, PAC Audio Input, Interior LED Conversion, Dash LED Accents, 3W LED Trunk Lighting

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            • #21
              Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

              Now this is the thread i was waiting for....

              That wing though bro....

              Lower the car at least, looks like a monster truck with an ebay wing and everyone i know would laugh for an hour from a 2 second viewing....

              People want to race you because they want to embarrass you when they win.

              Just saying.

              I can go 20MPH faster around turns than i do right now. I do 65 around a decently tight curve now and am pretty scared, but a wing will allow me to do 85? So many down forces.....
              Mods: Racingline STB, Racingline grounding kit, Racingline MMI, Crabs Intake O3 w/ FPU, Redline Quicklift PLUS, Front R1Concepts Drilled and Slotted Rotors, Posi Quiet Ceramic Pads, BMD Adjustable Endlinks, H&R Sport Lowering springs, WAMS 93 Octane ECM Tune

              Appearance Mods: Eagle Eye Projector Headlights (Black), Dart Carbon Fiber Overlays, Full Debadge, Plastidipped Grill, Black Altezza Tail Lights, Red Interior LEDs

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              • #22
                Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                Reading all of this makes me feel like I'm trying to teach a little kid how to read. Ill try to start slow. Adding weight to a car makes it Handel worse, but adding down force makes it Handel better meaning you have more grip and can go around them faster.I know you haven't experienced this, but try to picture it. Friction is what gives you traction, without it we wouldn't be able to move. The more friction the more grip causing faster cornering speeds. Stiffer suspension and lower springs do help keep a car in contact with the road, but only down force will cause more friction. The bigger the spoiler, and angle of the spoiler will also create more down force depending on the velocity. Most cars already have a certain amount of down force mainly from the hood and windshield, which is what you guys can feel as grip. Now when you add something like a front splitter or a tall rear spoiler you will feel extra grip as you go through a turn. I can guarantee that with all of the factors like the area and angle that my spoiler has, is enough to make it faster around turns than it was before due to the increased grip and stability at the speeds in which I drive which is a bit faster than you.
                Last edited by OneBadAzzG6; 04-22-2014, 11:09 PM.
                Black 2007 G6 GTP six speed 66,000 miles. Mods: Carbon fiber GT spoiler with seven inch brackets; 25mm wheel spacers; Chrome ebay intake with black couplers: Red led interior lights; Painted front grille with chrome strips; Muffler delete; Painted headlights with eyebrows; 4 55 watt 6000k hid lights from the retrofitsource; projectors with super bright red cob led halo rings; Altezza tail lights; Front Splitter; front canards; rear diffuser; eibach lowering springs; racingline strut tower bar. Future mods: Front Cobalt as brembo brakes; 19x10 inch wheels; fender flares; 10% window tint; make my own carbon fiber hood to look like the vis racing hoods; Reshape the rear trunklid to look smoother and add a sportier looking rear lip; Painted mirrors; Protean in wheel electric motors in the rear wheels.

                G6 is now for sale! $7000



                progression: http://www.g6performance.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=25701

                If its possible I can do it, if it isn't I will try.

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                • #23
                  Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                  Believe me I know that when you lower a car it will have less lean, because I had a 1996 camaro that I lowered 2 inches all the way around and its ride height was well below the bottem of your window, but even with its wide stance and low height, I couldn't take turns as fast as I can in the g6 after I added thick wheel spacers and a huge spoiler. If you still really don't think that spoilers help you are in denial, and need to experience what I am trying to explain to you. By the way I don't know what your definition of real money is, by I paid $300 for it and I wouldn't be surprised if it puts out more down force then most cars you'll see at the track. If you think its shape wasn't engineered and that its just some kind of decal like those little straight aluminum $80 pieces of junk then I feel bad for how much you know.
                  Last edited by OneBadAzzG6; 04-22-2014, 11:36 PM.
                  Black 2007 G6 GTP six speed 66,000 miles. Mods: Carbon fiber GT spoiler with seven inch brackets; 25mm wheel spacers; Chrome ebay intake with black couplers: Red led interior lights; Painted front grille with chrome strips; Muffler delete; Painted headlights with eyebrows; 4 55 watt 6000k hid lights from the retrofitsource; projectors with super bright red cob led halo rings; Altezza tail lights; Front Splitter; front canards; rear diffuser; eibach lowering springs; racingline strut tower bar. Future mods: Front Cobalt as brembo brakes; 19x10 inch wheels; fender flares; 10% window tint; make my own carbon fiber hood to look like the vis racing hoods; Reshape the rear trunklid to look smoother and add a sportier looking rear lip; Painted mirrors; Protean in wheel electric motors in the rear wheels.

                  G6 is now for sale! $7000



                  progression: http://www.g6performance.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=25701

                  If its possible I can do it, if it isn't I will try.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                    Originally posted by OneBadAzzG6 View Post
                    Believe me I know that when you lower a car it will have less lean, because I had a 1996 camaro that I lowered 2 inches all the way around and its ride height was well below the bottem of your window, but even with its wide stance and low height, I couldn't take turns as fast as I can in the g6 after I added thick wheel spacers and a huge spoiler. If you still really don't think that spoilers help you are in denial, and need to experience what I am trying to explain to you. By the way I don't know what your definition of real money is, by I paid $300 for it and I wouldn't be surprised if it puts out more down force then most cars you'll see at the track. If you think its shape wasn't engineered and that its just some kind of decal like those little straight aluminum $80 pieces of junk then I feel bad for how much you know.
                    You really got a hard on for this spoiler, huh? Too bad you do a lot of talking out your ass, because you seem pretty passionate.

                    In all reality, the two mods that you claim make you a handling god, are pretty much the two worst handling mods you can do. All you've managed to do is screw up suspension geometry designed by a multi-billion doallar company with massive amounts of R&D...not to mention a 3500 lbs coupe isn't exactly meant for carving corners anyway.
                    First off, that spoiler does nothing for you in the performance realm...plain and simple. Massive spoilers are nothing more than jewelry on anything other than race cars or higher end supercars. Those are the only cars really needing that downforce for handling. Other "fast" cars (think base corvette, GT500, Viper, etc) use their spoilers for high speed stability, not cornering, simply because they don't have the ability to go fast enough through the turns in which enough downforce would be created to be beneficial to the cornering.
                    Secondly, those wheel spacers are redonkulously huge. Even at more normal sizes, the handling benefits of wheels spacers aren't fully verified. They are much more an appearance mod or a mod out of necessity (needed to clear brembos). At 32mm your wheels are waaaaaay further out than the suspension was designed for. In the stock suspension of our cars, the cornering force on the wheel and tire is transferred very nicely through the lugs/face of the wheel/hub assembly which is then all kept in check by the sway bar and endlinks. With those giant wheel spacers you push the wheels so far out from the components that keep cornering forces in check, you probably lose more than you gain from the wider stance. All the force has to travel from one component to the next, to the next, to be absorbed. And while everything feels nice and tight right now, I guarantee under heavy cornering loads, you're getting more flex than there would be with the wheel bolted right against the hub. Not to mention all that extra stress you put on the wheel bearings and extra long (or two sets) of lugs/nuts.

                    If you were really serious about handling, you'd be much better off making your car lower, lighter (no extra pieces of metal hanging off the ends of your car), and do some quality upgrades to the actual components themselves. The stock endlinks are pathetic, I could easily flex them 10 degrees in my hands when I replaced mine. The stock shocks and struts are made for comfort, not handling. You should get konis or coilovers (hell, even the kyb's I put on helped a little and they were cheap). You should upgrade to poly sway bar bushings as the stock rubber ones are very soft. Also you would need to get some seriously lightweight 17-18" wheels with some nice summer performance rubber and ditch those stock, heavy 18's with (most likely) LS2s. Then once you have everything upgraded, you would need to do a lot of testing to find the perfect balance between ride height, dampening, rebound, camber, etc.

                    Sorry to say, handling is a lot more complicated than just downforce. Not to mention your car, nor any of our G6s, will ever be fast enough to need or make enough downforce to be legitimately beneficial to cornering.
                    Last edited by l672lx9; 04-23-2014, 12:25 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                      Originally posted by OneBadAzzG6 View Post
                      Reading all of this makes me feel like I'm trying to teach a little kid how to read. Ill try to start slow. Adding weight to a car makes it Handel worse, but adding down force makes it Handel better meaning you have more grip and can go around them faster.I know you haven't experienced this, but try to picture it. Friction is what gives you traction, without it we wouldn't be able to move. The more friction the more grip causing faster cornering speeds. Stiffer suspension and lower springs do help keep a car in contact with the road, but only down force will cause more friction. The bigger the spoiler, and angle of the spoiler will also create more down force depending on the velocity. Most cars already have a certain amount of down force mainly from the hood and windshield, which is what you guys can feel as grip. Now when you add something like a front splitter or a tall rear spoiler you will feel extra grip as you go through a turn. I can guarantee that with all of the factors like the area and angle that my spoiler has, is enough to make it faster around turns than it was before due to the increased grip and stability at the speeds in which I drive which is a bit faster than you.


                      Bring it here.. I bet I woop you thru ANY corner you'd like to take.. . helll.. id almost wager I could take you down a straight too.. I've got a smaller motor and less wing, but I have all the supporting mods to take me places faster than you'd imagine. you obviously have no idea how your car works.. which is sad b/c if you really knew how to be passionate about the RIGHT thing.. you could be great


                      but HUGE spacers and dollar store wings don't make a car fast.. what is the typical speed at which you take a corner?


                      Current Modifications: 18' Sky Wheels w/ 245/40-18 Tires, 25mm Spacers, Megan Racing Coilovers, Racingline STB, JPE Rear Camber Kit, Energy Suspension Poly Bushings, Painted Calipers, Double Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Ceramic Brake Pads, Street Series MMI, CRABS with FPU, NGK Iridium Plugs, Kingsborne 8mm Wires, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Custom 2ga Grounding Kit, DDM 6k HIDs High/Low/Fog, Halos, High/Fog Mod, Chrome Recessed Upper and Lower Grills, GM Ground Effects Kit, GXP Rear Bumper, GXP Sedan Hammerhead, 15% Tint, Custom Painted Engine Cover, Painted Mirror Caps, Tinted Tails, QuickLifts, PAC Audio Input, Interior LED Conversion, Dash LED Accents, 3W LED Trunk Lighting

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                      • #26
                        Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                        Techno gray 07 G6 GT Sedan 20% tint, 6000K HID's, red LED floor lights, intake resonator removal, LED interior and reverse lights, debadged rear dart, gm emblem and pontiac emblem, and black emblem overlays.


                        Build thread: http://www.g6performance.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=24478

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                        • #27
                          Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                          its about time for this..




                          Current Modifications: 18' Sky Wheels w/ 245/40-18 Tires, 25mm Spacers, Megan Racing Coilovers, Racingline STB, JPE Rear Camber Kit, Energy Suspension Poly Bushings, Painted Calipers, Double Drilled/Slotted Rotors, Ceramic Brake Pads, Street Series MMI, CRABS with FPU, NGK Iridium Plugs, Kingsborne 8mm Wires, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Custom 2ga Grounding Kit, DDM 6k HIDs High/Low/Fog, Halos, High/Fog Mod, Chrome Recessed Upper and Lower Grills, GM Ground Effects Kit, GXP Rear Bumper, GXP Sedan Hammerhead, 15% Tint, Custom Painted Engine Cover, Painted Mirror Caps, Tinted Tails, QuickLifts, PAC Audio Input, Interior LED Conversion, Dash LED Accents, 3W LED Trunk Lighting

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                          • #28
                            Re: GXP hammar head spoiler!

                            OK, so I do have to agree with OneBadAzzG6, for the talk on here was about his G6 being purely stock but as many of you guys know my G6's has pretty much expanded the envelop of every possible modifications to the G6 in regards to not just engine, but suspension, looks, stopping power and safety and I can safely say that what he speaks of it pretty accurate with a few exceptions since I'm a bias person.

                            I recently got his exact same spoiler installed on my G6 and it really helps with the Koni Yellow shocks in the rear along with the spacers that really keeps my ass planted on the ground. I'm not going for MPG, since I know with the 93 WAMS my MPG is shot to hell. I'm in the finally stages of the MDP air ram hood and will have it installed in a few weeks and that will probably be the last performance or major mod for the G6.

                            I can safetly agree that the spoiler with the 19mm spacers, eibach's, koni's @ 1.75 turn past full soft, Front Brembo's, Enlarged rear brakes, poly bushings, STB, Rear STB, and A/S 3's that the G6 can do a off ramp at 85 mph with ease and makes Audi's and Beamers press on the gas becasue my G6' is agile as fuck now, I've yet to feel my ass bounce over the legal speed limit or lose grip in the front. I will admit Michelin's do stick to the road like glue so the tires alone as a huge plus. But with my entire car being stuper stiff, smooth as fuck with the Koni's, and superior braking and handling with the Koni's and upgraded brakes plus the added weight of the enlarged rotors and the 19mm spacers adding a 38 mm wider stance with upgraded racing wheel bearings and a mechanic that has achieved a perfect alignment I can safely say the englarged spoiler does add a signifiant addition to the handling of the car.

                            I have lost about 1 mpg, but I hardly even drive less than 5 over the limit unless radar and waze goes off then I slow down for the tag.

                            overall I do feel the difference in grip, I'd be impressed when I do get the ram-air hood installed what my MPG does with cooler air and a fully wrapped with 2 layers of thermal reflective tap over the intake will do for performance.
                            Performance: WAMS, K&N 69 Series CAI, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust built with a Camaro SS Muffler and Glasspack with 4 inch double-wall stainless steel tips, Thunderbolt 8.2mm High-Performance Spark Plug Wires, NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plugs, Pennzoil Ultra Full Synthetic, Resonator Delete, Racingline Motor Mount Inserts, Racingline Grounding kit. (4 additional grounds from battery to front bumper for DDM tuning HIDS)

                            Handling: Moog Front Control Arms and Toe Ends, Racingline STB, Koni Yellow "4 Point" Suspension -Front to Rear- , Energy Suspension Poly Front Sway Bar bushings, Energy Suspension Tie-rod bushings, Energy Suspension Front Control Arm replacement mounts, Eibach Pro-kit springs, BMD Front Endlinks, Genuine Saab .9mm Rear Chamber Shims, 19mm Motorsports spacers on all 4 tires.

                            Stopping: Cobalt SS Front Brembo's, R1Concepts Premium Cross-slotted Front Rotors, R1Concepts Premium Cross-slotted and Drilled rear Rotors, Hawk HPS pads, ATE Super Blue Brake Fluid, BMD Steel Braided Brake Lines, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires.

                            Appearance: Revotec Eagle Eye CCFL Projectors, Red Calibers, 6000k 35w DDM fogs, 6000k 55w DDM lows, LED Taillights, DDM Tuning LED Switchback Turn Signals, Konig Crown 17x7.5 Rims. 30% tint in front windows, rear windows @ 15% tint

                            Safety & Security: Cobra XRS 9470 Radar Detector, Experimental 2mm rear mounted camera with Bluetooth connectivity to my phone, GOSHERS Universal Blind Spot Detection System w/ LED Indicators, Waze GPS App with a windshield mount for early warning for police coupled with Radar Detector (double-whammy).

                            Experimental: BG 44k, BG MOA, BG ATC, Custom Transmission Cooler, Super Secret Flux-capacitor transporter, Header reflective wrap, CAI 2000 degree radiant reflective wrap.

                            Progression: http://www.g6performance.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=22823


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