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  • Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

    The U.S. Car Allowance Rebate System (a.k.a. 'cash-for-clunkers') program was a short-term boon for automakers participating in our market. Sales went up, inventory went down and nearly 700,000 vehicles that would likely have otherwise ended up on used car lots were destroyed. And since the U.S. is essentially a free market where automakers around the globe are allowed to participate, Japanese and European automakers benefited from the program as well. In fact, Japanese automakers fared even bet


    REPORT: Detroit Three call Japan's cash-for-clunkers program unfair
    by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Dec 11th 2009 at 10:32AM


    The U.S. Car Allowance Rebate System (a.k.a. 'cash-for-clunkers') program was a short-term boon for automakers participating in our market. Sales went up, inventory went down and nearly 700,000 vehicles that would likely have otherwise ended up on used car lots were destroyed. And since the U.S. is essentially a free market where automakers around the globe are allowed to participate, Japanese and European automakers benefited from the program as well. In fact, Japanese automakers fared even better than their U.S. competitors, as Toyota, Honda and Nissan are said to have surpassed their market share with the program. A reported 319,000 of the 677,000 vehicles sold via cash-for-clunkers were from Japanese companies. But while the U.S. C4C program took place in a free market where everybody is able to participate, critics are complaining that the new Japanese program is anything but equal opportunity.

    Japan is considered by many to be the world's most insular auto market, and its $3.7 billion government clunker program makes U.S. autos ineligible for government assistance. According to The Detroit News, the program, which the Japanese government is using to spur sales (which are down 17 percent versus 2008 levels), provides cash rebates of up to $2,830 for customers who turn in vehicles 13 years or older. Car buyers who don't turn in a vehicle can still get over $1,100 toward the purchase of a new vehicle. An estimated 87 percent of all Japanese vehicles are eligible for the program, while zero vehicles from General Motors, Ford and Chrysler will be eligible.

    The DetNews is reporting that Motown automakers have written a letter to the Deputy U.S. Trade Representative calling for action on a matter that was called "another example of Japan continuing efforts to discriminate against imported vehicles." Carol Guthry of the U.S. Trade Representative told the newspaper that the government is working to resolve the issue, adding "our position remains that changes are necessary to give U.S. vehicles greater opportunity to qualify under Japan's program."

    While we're not exactly import/export experts and we don't have any experience with foreign relations, we're thinking it's about time Japan treated foreign automakers in the Land of the Rising Sun with the same level of equality that its automakers receive elsewhere in the world. What do you think? Have your say in 'Comments.'

    [Source: The Detroit News | Image: Yoshikazu Tsuno/AFP/Getty]
    Lemme be the first to raise the flag.

    They get over half the sales from our Cash For Clunkers program... and then they go and block all American cars from being eligable in their own version of Cash For Clunkers...

    Hopefully the US Gov't will do something about it. like they said with internation trade stuff.. but i doubt it.
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  • #2
    Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

    Originally posted by WoodburyMan
    Hopefully the US Gov't will do something about it. like they said with internation trade stuff.. but i doubt it.
    Yeah and you can thank you know who for not doing shit about it....

    and Complete

    Originally posted by BAMBAMM
    I'm about the best wingman in the San Joaquin Valley...........I'm the guy that will hit on the ugly friend, so you can swoop in and bag the hottie friend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

      I just saw this on autoblog and boy am I pissed! im surprised woody couldent here my rant in CT.
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      • #4
        Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars



        That is total BS!!!!

        i will raise this one....





        Give them a

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

          The solution to this seems very, very simple to me. Create a levy tax on every Japanese car imported to the US until the CfC money they benefitted from is paid back.

          Japan wants to create incentive not to buy American cars? Fine, we'll create incentive not to buy Japanese cars. That's all taxes are anyway. A way to incentivise a behavior. Then, Japan can watch their sales drop another 17% when people don't want to pay an extra $4k a car.



          Assholes.
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          • #6
            Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

            A. Japan hasent had a free market in 20+ years. and its an unfair playing field for any non japanese company.
            B. they own most of our national debt and if we want them to keep buying it they wont let us enforce such laws on them here.
            C. its americas fault (our citizens) for supporting there products/buying there crap.
            D. Nobama should of had C4C here be for cars made in North America. but dident for reason B and hes a pussy for not trying to do so.
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            • #7
              Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

              Originally posted by jedi3
              A. Japan hasent had a free market in 20+ years. and its an unfair playing field for any non japanese company.
              B. they own most of our national debt and if we want them to keep buying it they wont let us enforce such laws on them here.
              C. its americas fault (our citizens) for supporting there products/buying there crap.
              D. Nobama should of had C4C here be for cars made in North America. but dident for reason B and hes a pussy for not trying to do so.
              Originally posted by 1BADG6GT
              Originally posted by WoodburyMan
              Hopefully the US Gov't will do something about it. like they said with internation trade stuff.. but i doubt it.
              Yeah and you can thank you know who for not doing shit about it....

              and Complete
              Like I said ALL THANKS TO IT!!!

              Originally posted by BAMBAMM
              I'm about the best wingman in the San Joaquin Valley...........I'm the guy that will hit on the ugly friend, so you can swoop in and bag the hottie friend.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                ...to be fair Obama has nothing to do with it. Congress and such drew up all the stipulations and conditions for Cash For Clunkers... and at the time foreign cars and such being used for it was not a issue. They copied and modeled it after Germany's program that they had first, which allowed all cars basically as well.

                As for dealing with Japan over this issue... Obama has literally no say in the matter, let alone he probally shouldn't even stick his nose in this as it's not a issue for a President to take on... unless he wants to have a beer summit with Japan's head of commerce and trade regulation or the portion of Japan's government that set the program up and is running it.

                It's our FTC and whatever international division of trade and commerce in our government that has to take action on this to go through. However due to the damn buroucracy being slow and inefficient the Cash for Clunkers program in Japan will be over before they can even address the issue. Let alone.. being close to X-mas i doubt the government officials will want to take it on and deal with it over their extended brakes from doing anything for the country.

                I'm not a Obama fan as you all know... i despise him.. but this really has nothing to do with this.
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                • #9
                  Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                  I kinda agree with Japan.

                  What our cash for clunkers should have ONLY been used for was a pre aproved list of cars that was built in the US, if that car was built in the US then it should have been the only quilified car.

                  Example
                  BMW X6, built in alanta, GA. Should have been an aproved car
                  Chevy HHR built in mexico. Should have NOT been aproved car.
                  Pontiac Solstice, built in Wilington, DE. Aproved car.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                    Originally posted by dre256
                    I kinda agree with Japan.

                    What our cash for clunkers should have ONLY been used for was a pre aproved list of cars that was built in the US, if that car was built in the US then it should have been the only quilified car.

                    Example
                    BMW X6, built in alanta, GA. Should have been an aproved car
                    Chevy HHR built in mexico. Should have NOT been aproved car.
                    Pontiac Solstice, built in Wilington, DE. Aproved car.
                    What % parts for the HHR are made in the USA but just shipped to Mexico for assembly??
                    That's where it gets very technical. The Pontiac Torrent was assembled in Ontario, however the 3.4L used in them was assembled and made in China. (Although this case it's built in Canada, there are other cars that do that but are made in the USA.). Easier to say this car company, that car company, but then again, that isn't fair as there are SOME "import" cars that are 100% made in the USA. Therefore.. it's best to just leave it as it was done IMHO and allow all cars.
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                      I don't think that point holds much water IMO. It should be dependent on whether the car company is based in the country or not. IE it should have been just chrysler, ford and GM that got the cash for clunkers because as I've said all along, Japan sure shit isn't going to do that for our companies. As displayed in this article. I don't think the fact that some foreign car companies manufactur cars here should make them eligible since the amount of foreign cars made here is trivial anyway. The Japanese government has been in bed with their car companies forever so this doesn't surprise me.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                        Originally posted by leong6gtp
                        I don't think that point holds much water IMO. It should be dependent on whether the car company is based in the country or not. IE it should have been just chrysler, ford and GM that got the cash for clunkers because as I've said all along, Japan sure shit isn't going to do that for our companies. As displayed in this article. I don't think the fact that some foreign car companies manufactur cars here should make them eligible since the amount of foreign cars made here is trivial anyway. The Japanese government has been in bed with their car companies forever so this doesn't surprise me.
                        and well said.

                        Also if your going to have the agument of "well the hondas civic is made here" fine! only cars made in North America get C4C's money. Also to woodys point the car has to be well lets just call it 75% made/assembled in North America.
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                        .................................................. .. Progression & Pics thread .................................................. ..

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                        • #13
                          Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                          Originally posted by jedi3
                          Originally posted by leong6gtp
                          I don't think that point holds much water IMO. It should be dependent on whether the car company is based in the country or not. IE it should have been just chrysler, ford and GM that got the cash for clunkers because as I've said all along, Japan sure shit isn't going to do that for our companies. As displayed in this article. I don't think the fact that some foreign car companies manufactur cars here should make them eligible since the amount of foreign cars made here is trivial anyway. The Japanese government has been in bed with their car companies forever so this doesn't surprise me.
                          and well said.

                          Also if your going to have the agument of "well the hondas civic is made here" fine! only cars made in North America get C4C's money. Also to woodys point the car has to be well lets just call it 75% made/assembled in North America.
                          Again.. the whole % thing is where it gets tricky. Say if its 100% fully asembled in America from bits.. but 100% of the parts are from China. What % American is the car? The Torrent.. where Engine is from China, body parts from U.S.... but Assembled in Canada. What % American is it??? One can argue it's 1/3 American since only 1/3 of the total labor for parts/labor were from America. One could say it's 50% American because the body parts are from America. Or you can say it's 100% American because it's a GM Vehicle. Or you can say it's 100% Canadian since it's imported from Canada and put together there. To many ifs/
                          2015 Chevy SS, Perfect Blue Metallic, Sunroof, No Spare, M6
                          Appearance: Full LED Conversion, 6000L D3S HID Bulbs, Holden Rear and Front Embloms
                          Go Stuff: Diablew 93 Octane Tune

                          Missed and not forgotten. Traded.
                          2005 CGM GTO.
                          386whp, 364ft-lb torque, Corsa Sport Exhaust, Tuning, K&N Intake, VX Tails, Halo Projectors
                          2009 G8 GT SRM Premium Package, 6000K LED + HID Lows, Factory Bluetooth Retrofit, Atari Gauges, Factory iPod Control, 93 Octane Diablew Tune, Vararam Intake, MBR Strut Bar, Corsa Catback, DBA 4000SX Slotted + Drilled Rotors, Hawk Ceramic Pads.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                            Originally posted by WoodburyMan
                            Originally posted by jedi3
                            Originally posted by leong6gtp
                            I don't think that point holds much water IMO. It should be dependent on whether the car company is based in the country or not. IE it should have been just chrysler, ford and GM that got the cash for clunkers because as I've said all along, Japan sure shit isn't going to do that for our companies. As displayed in this article. I don't think the fact that some foreign car companies manufactur cars here should make them eligible since the amount of foreign cars made here is trivial anyway. The Japanese government has been in bed with their car companies forever so this doesn't surprise me.
                            and well said.

                            Also if your going to have the agument of "well the hondas civic is made here" fine! only cars made in North America get C4C's money. Also to woodys point the car has to be well lets just call it 75% made/assembled in North America.
                            Again.. the whole % thing is where it gets tricky. Say if its 100% fully asembled in America from bits.. but 100% of the parts are from China. What % American is the car? The Torrent.. where Engine is from China, body parts from U.S.... but Assembled in Canada. What % American is it??? One can argue it's 1/3 American since only 1/3 of the total labor for parts/labor were from America. One could say it's 50% American because the body parts are from America. Or you can say it's 100% American because it's a GM Vehicle. Or you can say it's 100% Canadian since it's imported from Canada and put together there. To many ifs/
                            There is only too many ifs/buts if you over think the situation. At the end of the day the profits are not only supporting the dealer network but they are also supporting an American company which helps the U.S economy. An overwhelming majority is made/assembled in North America so its not as bad as if the complete cars were made over-seas. Foreign car companies that put plants here such as Nissan/(Suburu?) make it purely for a marketing standpoint. Recently they dumped a bunch of workers form the plants here, like I said it's a marketing strategy and that's it.

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                            Show
                            -20% tint
                            -bohaman AUX-in radio mod
                            -Professionally heated seats

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                            • #15
                              Re: Japenese Cash For Clunkers Denies Rebates Used on US Cars

                              cash for clunkers was a terrible idea anyway. what about all the people out there just looking for cheap transportation who can't afford to run out and buy a new car? what about all the parents looking for a reasonable first vehicle for their kids? now the "nearly 700,000 vehicles that would likely have otherwise ended up on used car lots" that could have been decent transportation for somebody are going to cost money to be scrapped instead. i understand trying to boost the economy and what not (my own job in fact is directly proportional to how well car sales are doing), but was throwing away useful commodities the best they could come up with?

                              and yes i know some of the cars turned in where actually junk and should have been scrapped long ago but that is hardly enough to redeem the program.

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