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Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

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  • Will anyone mourn Pontiac?


    The Pontiac brand may be going away, but General Motors (MTLQQ, news, msgs) is hoping its customer base won't.

    By the end of 2010, GM will have shut down Pontiac while hoping to retain the 83-year-old brand's domestic market share, which was 2% in the first half of this year.

    Other than GM, "Nobody's going to miss Pontiac," says industry analyst James Harbour, the founder of the Harbour Report and the author of the autobiography "Factory Man." "There was nothing unique about it," Harbour says. "It competed with Saturn, Chevrolet and the low end of the Buick line, and all the cars it had were derivative off a Chevrolet base."


    Adds Jesse Toprak, market analyst for Edmunds.com: "Pontiac was GM's performance-, sports-oriented brand, but it was never compelling enough, never good enough. For the most part, it was just a redundant brand. It had some exciting products that would come up and create buzz, but then they would go away.

    "GM can do the math," Toprak said. "They decided they would be better off without it."

    GM's plan, well-known by now, is to support four core brands -- Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC -- and 34 nameplates, down from 48 today. Slimming down narrows the cost and focus for development, manufacturing and marketing.

    Most experts see that as the sort of strategy GM should have adopted years ago, on the theory that a company with 20% of the market shouldn't try to operate as it did in 1962, when it had 51% of the market. GM had become so ossified that the government had to intervene to enforce this line of thought
    For the new GM, the loss of Pontiac is a major adjustment. Pontiac sold 88,794 cars in the first half of 2009, according to Edmunds.com. GM wants to drop Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab, which combined have 3% of the market, while retaining an 18% to 19% share of the overall vehicle market.

    "GM has to retain every tenth of a point of market share," says independent auto analyst Tom Libby. "They had 50%, they are now around 19%, and they are on the way to 17%. They have to stop the share decline."

    As for retaining Pontiac buyers, "I would say there is no way they can retain 100%, but they can retain 40% to 70%," Libby says.

    It is not clear that GM has devised a clear plan regarding Pontiac. Marketing chief Bob Lutz recently said GM would keep the powerful, Australian-made rear-wheel-drive Pontiac G8 sports sedan in its lineup by rebranding it as the Chevrolet Caprice, a former favorite of police departments the country over.

    A day later, CEO Fritz Henderson said plans to discontinue the car remain in effect. In a subsequent blog post, Lutz said that "upon further review," the car will be scrapped.

    Another area of concern is a recent report by Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy suggesting GM will lose more market share than it anticipates.

    "We believe that GM's 18%-19% market share target is optimistic, and a more realistic range is 15%-16%," Murphy wrote. The projection was based on his comparative analysis of the percentage of new models in each automaker's sales, an area where GM ranks low.

    However, GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson questions the metric's relevance. "We take a fairly dim view of that report," he says. "I don't think any legitimate statistician would look at that and reach the same conclusion."

    Libby says GM is least likely to retain Pontiac customers who prefer performance vehicles like the G8 and the Solstice. Those buyers "will likely look at European products as well as Asian products with high performance," he says.

    ]By contrast, owners of Pontiac SUVs, the G6 and the Grand Am will likely stay with GM, he says, because the purchases are not performance-oriented and buyers "are most likely connected to GM in some way."

    Among GM brands, "Chevy is first in line" to gain Pontiac share, Toprak said. "Then come lesser brands, some Buick and some Cadillac. If GM is proactive in trying to keep those people and offers loyalty programs, the percentage will be high, over 50%."

    In the worst-case scenario for GM, he says, Pontiac buyers will flee to Ford (F, news, msgs) because they feel "frustrated with the failure of old GM (and) they juxtapose that with the stability of Ford and its compelling lineup of cars."

    The 2004 shutdown of Oldsmobile proves it can be done. "When they discontinued Oldsmobile, they were retaining most Olds owners, who were trading for another GM product," says Libby.

    But Toprak says Olds shut down in an easier time, before GM's financial difficulties were so acute.

  • #2
    Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

    I said it before and I'll say it again No more GM Products for me unless I get a used AWD Vibe for a daily driver. Other than that I'm looking at Ford, or Dodge. Fed up with GM and their bullshit.
    2015 Chevy SS, Perfect Blue Metallic, Sunroof, No Spare, M6
    Appearance: Full LED Conversion, 6000L D3S HID Bulbs, Holden Rear and Front Embloms
    Go Stuff: Diablew 93 Octane Tune

    Missed and not forgotten. Traded.
    2005 CGM GTO.
    386whp, 364ft-lb torque, Corsa Sport Exhaust, Tuning, K&N Intake, VX Tails, Halo Projectors
    2009 G8 GT SRM Premium Package, 6000K LED + HID Lows, Factory Bluetooth Retrofit, Atari Gauges, Factory iPod Control, 93 Octane Diablew Tune, Vararam Intake, MBR Strut Bar, Corsa Catback, DBA 4000SX Slotted + Drilled Rotors, Hawk Ceramic Pads.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

      Im going to import cars from australia.

      750WHP Magnacharged GTO.....WTF!
      TVS2300 GTO, Innovators West 8" Overdrive Pulley, ECS Tensioner, SD tuned by Andrew at Complete street performance, Ed Curtis custom Lunati camshaft 230/236 .6XX/.6XX 113 LSA, Hardened Pushrods, Lunati .675 lift Valve Springs, Single Walbro 255 fuel pump in stock bucket, Kooks 1 7/8 Jet hot coated Headers , Kooks 3" catless mid pipes with DMH low pro electric cutouts, Spintech 2.5" stainless steel exhaust with X pipe, Carbon fiber Cold air box with AEM air filter, Billet products short shifter, JamesBiz Oil catch can, Pedders 5/16" raise springs with drag bags, Weld RTS Black with Hoosiers
      Show
      -20% tint
      -bohaman AUX-in radio mod
      -Professionally heated seats

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

        I can go on and on and point out how many wrong points this guy made. For starters Pontiac was NOT the performance brand, at least not until the 70s with the GTO. It was merely a step up for Chevy buyers who couldn't afford an Oakland.

        BTW why is this in the mods section?
        <-- Gray G6? Click!
        2006 G6 SE V6 3.5L Sedan "Sharon", Stealth Gray Metallic, 1SA+CF5+PCM+PDX - Sold but will not be forgotten... will always have a special place in my heart.
        2006 Solstice 2.4L I4 "Kristin", Shadow Gray Metallic, 1SA+JL9+G80+PCQ+ZQ2+ZQ3
        Life moves fast, don't miss a thing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

          No!
          Mods:Vector 93 Tune, OBX Racing Header(Cobalt), ZZP Connectors, Skunk2 Exhaust,Kenwood DVD/Navi System, 2 MTX 12's, 2 amps, Kicker 6x9"(rear), Alpine Type-S(front), Eneki EKM3 Wheels(18x8"), Tinted Tails, Black Projector Headlights, OEM Fogs, DDM Tuning 10K in both, Debadged, Racingline STB, OEM Carbon Fiber Hood

          The only lady im gonna be pimpin from now on, is sweet lady propane!-Hank Hill

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

            Originally posted by leong6gtp
            Im going to import cars from australia.

            They're still making the Comedore's down there right? They also had a whole genoration of Manaro's from 2001-2003 with LS1's in them before they came out with a new generation from 2004-2006 which they also sold as GTO's.

            Also.. a lot of people didn't understand the Manaro also was made down there in the 1970's to the tune of the Pontiac Tempast/LeMans//GTO, with the same relative powertrain options (With native Ausi motors though, but simular offerings and design as the Tempest/LeMans/GTO) and it will also killed the same year as the GTO.
            2015 Chevy SS, Perfect Blue Metallic, Sunroof, No Spare, M6
            Appearance: Full LED Conversion, 6000L D3S HID Bulbs, Holden Rear and Front Embloms
            Go Stuff: Diablew 93 Octane Tune

            Missed and not forgotten. Traded.
            2005 CGM GTO.
            386whp, 364ft-lb torque, Corsa Sport Exhaust, Tuning, K&N Intake, VX Tails, Halo Projectors
            2009 G8 GT SRM Premium Package, 6000K LED + HID Lows, Factory Bluetooth Retrofit, Atari Gauges, Factory iPod Control, 93 Octane Diablew Tune, Vararam Intake, MBR Strut Bar, Corsa Catback, DBA 4000SX Slotted + Drilled Rotors, Hawk Ceramic Pads.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

              I'm going to start looking for old Pontiac muscle cars to add to my collection.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                Originally posted by GT-R
                I'm going to start looking for old Pontiac muscle cars to add to my collection.
                How about a nice 1962 Catalina 421 Super Duty with aluminum fenders and swiss cheese chassis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                  Originally posted by WoodburyMan
                  Originally posted by leong6gtp
                  Im going to import cars from australia.

                  They're still making the Comedore's down there right? They also had a whole genoration of Manaro's from 2001-2003 with LS1's in them before they came out with a new generation from 2004-2006 which they also sold as GTO's.

                  Also.. a lot of people didn't understand the Manaro also was made down there in the 1970's to the tune of the Pontiac Tempast/LeMans//GTO, with the same relative powertrain options (With native Ausi motors though, but simular offerings and design as the Tempest/LeMans/GTO) and it will also killed the same year as the GTO.
                  You spelled Commodore and Monaro wrong. How dare you.

                  750WHP Magnacharged GTO.....WTF!
                  TVS2300 GTO, Innovators West 8" Overdrive Pulley, ECS Tensioner, SD tuned by Andrew at Complete street performance, Ed Curtis custom Lunati camshaft 230/236 .6XX/.6XX 113 LSA, Hardened Pushrods, Lunati .675 lift Valve Springs, Single Walbro 255 fuel pump in stock bucket, Kooks 1 7/8 Jet hot coated Headers , Kooks 3" catless mid pipes with DMH low pro electric cutouts, Spintech 2.5" stainless steel exhaust with X pipe, Carbon fiber Cold air box with AEM air filter, Billet products short shifter, JamesBiz Oil catch can, Pedders 5/16" raise springs with drag bags, Weld RTS Black with Hoosiers
                  Show
                  -20% tint
                  -bohaman AUX-in radio mod
                  -Professionally heated seats

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                    Originally posted by leong6gtp
                    Originally posted by WoodburyMan
                    Originally posted by leong6gtp
                    Im going to import cars from australia.

                    They're still making the Comedore's down there right? They also had a whole genoration of Manaro's from 2001-2003 with LS1's in them before they came out with a new generation from 2004-2006 which they also sold as GTO's.

                    Also.. a lot of people didn't understand the Manaro also was made down there in the 1970's to the tune of the Pontiac Tempast/LeMans//GTO, with the same relative powertrain options (With native Ausi motors though, but simular offerings and design as the Tempest/LeMans/GTO) and it will also killed the same year as the GTO.
                    You spelled Commodore and Monaro wrong. How dare you.
                    Which makes him unworthy to keep a GTO. Now drive it up to Toronto, park it outside my office, then drop the keys at the concierge. I'll then drive it home.
                    <-- Gray G6? Click!
                    2006 G6 SE V6 3.5L Sedan "Sharon", Stealth Gray Metallic, 1SA+CF5+PCM+PDX - Sold but will not be forgotten... will always have a special place in my heart.
                    2006 Solstice 2.4L I4 "Kristin", Shadow Gray Metallic, 1SA+JL9+G80+PCQ+ZQ2+ZQ3
                    Life moves fast, don't miss a thing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                      Originally posted by ToniCipriani
                      Which makes him unworthy to keep a GTO. Now drive it up to Toronto, park it outside my office, then drop the keys at the concierge. I'll then drive it home.
                      Good idea!

                      750WHP Magnacharged GTO.....WTF!
                      TVS2300 GTO, Innovators West 8" Overdrive Pulley, ECS Tensioner, SD tuned by Andrew at Complete street performance, Ed Curtis custom Lunati camshaft 230/236 .6XX/.6XX 113 LSA, Hardened Pushrods, Lunati .675 lift Valve Springs, Single Walbro 255 fuel pump in stock bucket, Kooks 1 7/8 Jet hot coated Headers , Kooks 3" catless mid pipes with DMH low pro electric cutouts, Spintech 2.5" stainless steel exhaust with X pipe, Carbon fiber Cold air box with AEM air filter, Billet products short shifter, JamesBiz Oil catch can, Pedders 5/16" raise springs with drag bags, Weld RTS Black with Hoosiers
                      Show
                      -20% tint
                      -bohaman AUX-in radio mod
                      -Professionally heated seats

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                        not sure because my grampa worked and retired from GM so he can get me a good discount!! lol
                        Blue Man Group
                        Current Mods: tint 35% front & !5%back, Alpine Type E 2-12" subs w/ Rockford Fosgate P400 Amp &cap, Rockford Fosgate 6.5" and 6"X9", R1Concepts E-Line slotted/cross drilled Rotors w/ Pads and painted blue calipers, 6,000k flashtech HIDs, and chrome be gone...

                        Future Mods: GXP/AIT front bumper, LED tinted tails, modded painted headlights with halos, Rockford Fosgate 6"x9" in the back doors

                        Originally posted by danmccormick87
                        gotta love iraq bootlegging

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                          ]By contrast, owners of Pontiac SUVs, the G6 and the Grand Am will likely stay with GM, he says, because the purchases are not performance-oriented and buyers "are most likely connected to GM in some way."

                          I loved GM products and always gravitated towards pontiac over most of the GM brands... but sorry I'm not reducing myself to a chevy now just to stay with GM. I don't like anything that chevy makes right now other then the vette and the camaro and it's not practical for me and I can't afford it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                            In the worst-case scenario for GM, he says, Pontiac buyers will flee to Ford (F, news, msgs) because they feel "frustrated with the failure of old GM (and) they juxtapose that with the stability of Ford and its compelling lineup of cars."
                            I already own a Ford, and if you haven't noticed GM, Ford stands by their products and doesn't have the same problems you do. And who wants to pay the overprice for your Chevy's?!?! Although when the new Tahoe came out, I would have loved to have one, I'm not forking over almost $40,000 for an overpriced POS, sry, but GM has lost my business... Worrying bout losing performance, you got rid of Pontiac, which was notorious for performance, on the street, and in various automotive sports, such as NHRA, Nascar, and so forth, and considering cutting Saab, which has amazing performance? Nope, you def aren't going to make a comeback, the government contracts are the only thing saving your sry @$$s now, I guess now, I have my first classic car!

                            It's not about how fast you get to your destination, it's about how you many heads
                            you turn when you get there...


                            My Progression Page
                            CarDomainMySpace

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                            • #15
                              Re: Will anyone mourn Pontiac?

                              eh you guys are pretty harsh towards GM, they have screwed up alot in the past, but so has everyone else.

                              I will always take a GM truck over ANY other.

                              the foreign brands will gain more and more ground, and IMO the (not so big) 3 are going to have to work together to become the best choice for north american consumers once again.

                              People need to not hold grudges so much with companies, what if you had given up on GM in the early 2000's when alot of other people did because of the horrible products that were coming out, you would have missed out on the recent vehicles g6, g8, solstice, new malibu, that are MUCH better than they were.

                              unfortunately a large majority of buyers had given up on GM already and that is why they lost such a market share and ended up in this situation, so all im saying is keep your mind open, as good things could be around the corner for GM
                              2008 Pontiac G6 GXP -AIT Kit - Rear Tint - 18s - Coming Soon: Tinted Tails, GT-R,
                              2006 Pontiac Grand Prix
                              1982 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham

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